Meley run is not in a good state

[DeCiMaToR]

Hello everyone,

I wanted to prepare for Meley eventually, when I heard how Meley is set up.
In short, the amount of chests depends on the amount of chars in the run.
Considering that the key is very expensive, and that changer drop is very very low (which it obviously should be), the rewards for a run are pretty bad for a solo player, even if you take 4-5 chars (and who has 4-5x lv105 chars anyway, except maybe 0.1% of the players?).

I heard the only way that Meley is profitable, is having 8 chars really.
Putting aside that making 8 chars to lv105 is ridiculous, it is simply not possible to even use the chars as a solo player due to only being able to open 5 clients.
Meaning, the only people who can do meley efficiently, are people who own a 2nd PC or laptop.

That means, that to efficiently do this run, it is necessary to go around a system that was intentionally implemented to prevent opening too many clients in the first place.
Also, as mentioned before, almost nobody will ever make 8 chars to 105 for a single run anyway, meaning this run is basically non-existant for almost everyone except a handful of players, since doing it with just 2-4 chars (which is more realistic for someone to have) is entirely not worth.

It is just very sad to me, since on old WoM, Meley was my favourite run, and initially I was looking forward to doing it. And right now, it does not feel like something hard that I want to work towards (I heard the run is actually pretty easy even), but rather just a poorly thought out system that reward many (shared) accounts and additional hardware.

My suggestions would be as following:

1. Implement the regular drop system, with a fixed amount of chests, not being dependant on the amount of chars in the run. This is more fair to all players, and prevents monopolies from forming, where only a few players do the run with 8 chars and make tons of money, while the rest won't do the run at all since it is not even worth with a few chars.

2. If not, make the entry to level90 like it was on old WoM, so it is more reasonable to create enough chars
3. Going along with the 2nd suggestion, it should be possible to open 8 clients per computer, as the current system is also very unfair in this regard, so that only people who own more hardware can efficiently do the run.


The easiest fix would definitely the 1st suggestion in my eyes. I guess some other things around it would need to be adjusted on top of it, like cooldown or something.

Would like to hear some feedback from others on this matter (and not necessarily from the few priviledged people who do the run with 2 PCs and 8 chars solo atm).

 

[Exeragon105]

Ohh damn another season another Decimator post, lovely, i remember the time before you quitted, Gave away everything *cough* you said the same about the earth drake, that you cannot do it solo anymore, well it was solo doable the whole time, and here we got a nice run, that you can do with your best friend or team, such a nice thing, he takes 4 chars, the other takes 4 chars, and everybody got the even amount of chests, not everything is meant to be solo doable, since this run is indeed solo doable, for you its just a matter of rewards and excels, we got a few in our Guild that already does it solo, with 5 chars, and as said already on chapter 4 release i really like the idea of having teamplay runs, i would appreciate even to make the Content harder, so you need atleast 4 people to do it. And you could think why they did it like that obviously they wanted to make more teamplay runs. So your best way would be, either go solo 5 chars, or find another player you wanna fair share. I liked the time of gaming when not everything was meant to be profitable rather just pure fun.

 

[DeCiMaToR]

Ohh damn another season another Decimator post, lovely, i remember the time before you quitted, Gave away everything *cough* you said the same about the earth drake, that you cannot do it solo anymore, well it was solo doable the whole time, and here we got a nice run, that you can do with your best friend or team, such a nice thing, he takes 4 chars, the other takes 4 chars, and everybody got the even amount of chests, not everything is meant to be solo doable, since this run is indeed solo doable, for you its just a matter of rewards and excels, we got a few in our Guild that already does it solo, with 5 chars, and as said already on chapter 4 release i really like the idea of having teamplay runs, i would appreciate even to make the Content harder, so you need atleast 4 people to do it. And you could think why they did it like that obviously they wanted to make more teamplay runs. So your best way would be, either go solo 5 chars, or find another player you wanna fair share. I liked the time of gaming when not everything was meant to be profitable rather just pure fun.

Who hurt you man? You completely missed the point.

The point is: It is not that the run is so hard that you can't do it solo, it is the fact that you have to carry dead-weight chars just for rewards.
The run is soloable, apparently it is also quite easy from what I have heard.
Also it is about discrepency: Sure you can go in with 2 people, and split rewards. Fact is, that the run is not really worth that much if you just get 4 chests for example.
Meanwhile, exploiters who go in with 2 PCs will profit heavily.
While this issue also always existed for DT, for Meley it can easily be fixed at least.

And you know what? I am not against a run that is not soloable. Quite the opposite, I really like the idea.
But people who did the run said it is actually quite easy to do solo.
So how about increasing the run's difficulty, while removing the chests being bound to amount of chars?

(On a side note, it is quite funny that you mention an over 1-year old post. My PoV at the time was simple: I did the run a lot over weeks and months, barely ever died.
Then suddenly, started dying very frequently. My conclusion: Possibly something has changed with the damage. I never said it is not soloable, but suddenly it wasnt reliable anymore.
Maybe I was just wrong and I was just very unlucky over an extended period amount of time, but that was my perspective.)

 

[Basim]

-1 to everything, the run is fine as it is, as Exe said find someone to partner up with. In case you forgot, that's how we as players did Earth Dragon too when it was first added and it's still how some players do it now.

The entry at level 105 was something I initially didn't like too, but I realized this run is meant to be done when you already finished everything else pvm-wise. Do you need absolutely everything done to be able to enter and do the run? No. Should you have at least 85% done? Absolutely.
And lastly, at this point in the server you should have as a single person 4 core chars level 105: farmer, x2 shamans and a nemere char. Some have a 5th if their pvp char is not a char that can be used pvm. Sure, the more people play together in partnerships, the more chars they'll have but that doesn't mean it's their problem that you play alone. WoM is a MMOPRG after all, it's not meant to be played alone.
And your argument about eXpLoItErS is weird, there's plenty of people that live in the same household and therefore are in a x2 PC situations, are those exploiters too by your logic? XD

 

[DeCiMaToR]

The term "exploit" simply refers to making use of a loophole, in a way that was not intended by the server.
When the 5 client bock gets passed by having 2 PCs, no matter how, it is an exploit from the server's perspective.
And obviously, it grants unfair advantages to those who don't own secondary hardware. So yes, exploit is a very correct expression in that regard.
Of course, people who do have it will definitely not complain, that is understandable.

It seems like people are actively ignoring my points. I even wrote before that I would love a team based run (which Meley is not), so why are you bringing back this "not meant to be played alone" thing again? This is utterly irrelevant to my entire argument.
After all, my argument is not "I cant do the run, it is too hard to do solo".

Also for your math: 1 player getting 4 chests, or 2 players getting 8 chests, still comes out to 4 chests per player.
And I got told doing it either way is not really worth, considering the entrance price and the low drop rate of alchemic changers etc.

Of course, what is "worth" is debatable. I see some chests for 77kk, but do they really sell?
If so, that would be 300kk at 4 chests, minus roughly 100kk for the entrance. 200kk per run in this case would be alright.
But I somehow doubt that they sell for that price, if the price is closer to 50kk that would change a lot.

And even then, the fact that the run can still be exploited by people using secondary hardware stays.
The thing is, this system with the char-dependent drop just isn't really beneficial in any way, and serves no real purpose.

 

[DeCiMaToR]

Also, just to add:
Taking DT as an example, sure some people who own multiple PCs and go in with 20-30 chars per run will love it.
But objectively, it is still unfair for the entire rest of the server, who do not have the option to do that.
Anyone with a tiny bit of integrity would agree to that, even if they benefit from this themselves.

 

[Ano]

-1 Take ur items and acc's back you gifted away then you can do it also with 5 acc's

 

[Exeragon105]

As you already said yourself, characters aren't the real problem so I have to ask, what is? You mentioned DT follows the same pattern, and the only real difference is how many characters someone can run based on their hardware. No spare laptop left from your last charity giveaway, by the way?


Honestly, your suggestion feels less like “I want to encourage teamplay” and more like “I want to play solo and still get full rewards.” You want the same loot as people running in duos or with 8 characters and somehow that’s supposed to be fair? If you'd said something like “Let’s make Meley harder so it actually needs four real players due to some mechanic,” I’d be totally on board. But instead, it sounds more like: “I have 5 chars, don’t want to make more, but still want maximum loot.”


Now, just to be clear you’re not the one insisting on 8-man groups. The game itself requires it. That’s the system. But if we look at it another way: what if Meley only needed 3 characters? Like 1 dragon buff, 1 body warrior, and 1 healing shaman? Then three chars could clear it and get 16 chests per run. Meanwhile, players with 8 or more characters could split their setups and do two Meleys in 40 minutes, easily walking away with 32 chests. Those “dead Meley chars” suddenly become MVPs again.


So yes, players with better setups, more hardware, or who team up smartly will always have an advantage. That’s not some exploit that’s just called game efficiency. But by sticking to this "8 characters = full rewards" system, the game basically forces people to level 8 characters just to keep up. And let’s be real, no one in their right mind wants to level 8 characters just to build a second or third Meley team.


But if Meley only required 3 characters, you could split an 8-man group into 2.5 teams and boom, even more loot. So let me ask would that be a problem for you too, or is it only an issue when others benefit more than you?

 

[DeCiMaToR]

Honestly, your suggestion feels less like “I want to encourage teamplay” and more like “I want to play solo and still get full rewards.” You want the same loot as people running in duos or with 8 characters and somehow that’s supposed to be fair?

It has absolutely nothing to do with my own benefit here, not sure how you derive to that conclusion from my post. Maybe you should read my replies more carefully so you don't miss what I am trying to say.
My entire point is, that running it with 2 people doesn't yield good enough rewards, when the loot is split and you only get 4 chests.
That does not change if you run it solo with 4 chars, or as duo with 8 chars, it still has the same result of 4 chests per player.

If you'd said something like “Let’s make Meley harder so it actually needs four real players due to some mechanic,” I’d be totally on board.

Proves that you haven't read what I wrote previously, because that is EXACTLY what I wrote and what I would like to happen.
I'd love a harder run that requires and rewards teamwork, instead of having an easily solo-able run that just rewards people who have 2 PCs and tons of chars for the extra loot.

I guess the main issue I have is how the client limit can be broken with a second set of hardware.

But if Meley only required 3 characters, you could split an 8-man group into 2.5 teams and boom, even more loot. So let me ask would that be a problem for you too, or is it only an issue when others benefit more than you?

^
Because that would not be an issue, since you can only do one run per IP. But again, it can be exploited with a second PC.

Anyway, generally speaking I just liked the way it was on the old WoM. Fixed amount of chests, only 2 entrances per day, and I think that would be more balanced generally as well.

I just don't like the way the run can be exploited with shared accounts, multiple PCs etc., where one solo-player can just get way more rewards because of it. It just creates an unfair ground.
Thinking about it, probably the best way to tackle this would be making the run hard enough and requiring teamwork, so that it can only be done in a group.

 

[Basim]

I genuinely don't understand why you wanna talk about a run you didn't even try yet...

 

[Cluss]

Teaming up with a partner also lowers the cost for one run, cause of 50/50 share, so have some friends???

 

[DeCiMaToR]

I genuinely don't understand why you wanna talk about a run you didn't even try yet...

I dont have to try it to know how the run works and what the rewards are, do I?

Teaming up with a partner also lowers the cost for one run, cause of 50/50 share, so have some friends???

First valid point in the entire "discussion", or rather "Hated sausage party" so far.

Anyway, my point stands, the system as it is right now is objectively bad, only the few people benefitting from it will defend it.
And surprise surprise, Hated doesn't want changes because of that! But then accusing me by saying I just want it for my own benefit, when in reality I just want a more balanced run overall - my kind of humour.

 

[Basim]

Plot twist, I'm not from hated nor am I benefiting from this system and if you'd try the run maybe you'd see that it's not as smooth sailing as it was on the previous server.
Usually first you try something, then you cry about it, not the other way around.
Truth is you wanna do it alone x3 chars and get 10 coffers like the previous server and you're mad you'll get 3 coffers or you'll have to share your loot with another person while others might play in partnerships and have x8 accounts to get the max amount of coffers.
TLDR: find a partner, try the run, then circle back here.

 

[DeCiMaToR]

Truth is you wanna do it alone x3 chars and get 10 coffers like the previous server and you're mad you'll get 3 coffers or you'll have to share your loot with another person while others might play in partnerships and have x8 accounts to get the max amount of coffers.

I already stated multiple times that I would even think it's a good idea to increase the difficulty so that it CANNOT be solo'd.
I just want a more balanced state, it has a literally nothing to do with me personally, not sure why people try to force it being about me.

There are 2 main factors in my opinion:

1. The client block, which prevents others from using 8 chars themselves simply by not owning the hardware. --> uneven playing ground
2. The value of the run itself being rather low if you don't do it solo with 8 chars. I talked to some people, and they said they would never do it in a group or solo when they only get 4 chests out of a run. As mentioned in a previous post, this is obviously subjective, but as a high-end run, that is also rather lengthy (not short like Aqua or Earth Drake), and on top of that has a long cooldown, the rewards should reflect that in my opinion.
If the average chest value is 50-70kk, that would mean 200-280kk value per run, minus they key, which would be 50-100kk depending on if you do it solo or with a friend.
So the run would give between 100 and 230kk depending on chest value and if you do it with friend.
For a rather lengthy run, and on top of that, the highest level run, this is rather underwhelming.

At the same time, the few people who do it solo with 8 chars would get like 300-460kk net value per run.
THIS is the discrepency I am talking about.
So, increasing the difficulty/dynamic of the run so that 2 players are required would for example solve this issue.

There are certainly other ways to adjust this, all I know is that the current situation creates rather large discrepencies.


In the end, people prepare for a run to get rewards. If they are strong enough, it is fair that they get the full drop imo.
If not, they have to do it with someone else and split the drop.
It is the same thing on all other runs like Azrael, Aqua Drake etc.

Just having 2 PCs and using 8 chars from some other people that share their accounts is not the spirit of the game and unfair to 99.9% of the playerbase.
Either make it hard, so that it cannot be done solo and rewards have to be split, or that it is achievable solo but very very hard, then the rewards are also justified imo.



Not sure what more to say in this regard, I already presented my arguments, if they are straight up ignored that is fine, just don't put any words in my mouth or speculate things because you didn't even read what I wrote in the first place.

However, so far, (besides you) only Hated members wrote something, and since they for some reason like to make something personal out of this instead of objectively trying to discuss, their answers can just be disregarded on the matter.
I hope maybe some people with working brains can contribute to the discussion, fingers crossed.