Changes for 75 lvl dungeons (Azrael & Aqua drake)

[Adveres]

Subject: Request to Review the Current State of the 75–95 Level Range


Dear Administration,


I would like to kindly address the current state of the level range 75–95 and request that it be reviewed, particularly in regard to dungeon content and drop balance.


Here’s a quick overview of how the level progression currently looks on the server:

• Level 35 – Monkey Dungeon, Orc Map, Desert Map
• Level 42 – Orc Map, Desert, Sohan, Temple, Naaga Dungeon, SD1 (Spiders farm)
• Level 55/60 – Sohan, Fireland, Temple, Naaga + Spider Baroness, SD2 farm map
• Level 96–105 – Earth Dragon, Nemere, Razador, Azrael, and the 4 Beta Maps

Now we get to level 75 and the surrounding range, and this is where several problems begin to appear:

• Fireland – has no drop at all
• Regular Forest – drop quality is significantly worse than what a level 60 farmer gets
• Spider Baroness – generates 3–4 times less profit than at lower levels due to reduced yang, fewer entry passes, and worse side drop

The only meaningful content in this range includes DT (which, in practice, can already be done at 60 with a level 75 buffer), Azrael, Dragon, Red Forest, and Helia.


While Red Forest and Helia are in a good place, especially after being reintroduced recently, the real issue lies with Azrael and the Dragon, specifically regarding chest drops.


Currently, level 105 characters can access both of these dungeons and receive the same drop as a 75-level character. This is despite clear differences in strength, gear, and completion speed. For example:

• The Dragon at 75 requires a duo, which heavily cuts into profit
• Azrael takes roughly twice as long due to the gate floor
• Drop remains the same regardless of level

In earlier dungeons (e.g. Naaga at 42 vs. 60, or Baroness at 55 vs. 75–90), the drop scales noticeably, rewarding lower-level players. Unfortunately, this logic doesn’t carry over to Azrael and the Dragon, making them highly unprofitable for level 75–95 players.


In effect, this leaves only DT, Red Forest, and Helia as worthwhile content for that level range — which feels unbalanced and limiting.

---

My suggestion:
To address this imbalance, I propose one of the following solutions:

1. Reduce the maximum level for Azrael and Dragon to level 90, so that level 96+ characters no longer have access to these dungeons. This would positively impact the market and restore value to playing within the 75–90 range instead of pushing everyone toward endgame only.
2. Alternatively, adjust the chest drop system to scale better for lower-level characters, giving them more valuable rewards relative to their capabilities (similar to how it works with Naaga and Spider Baroness). This way, players without access to high-end gear or high damage output still feel appropriately rewarded for their efforts.

---

Thank you for your attention and all the work you do on the server.


Kind regards,Adveres

 

[ninja]

So u want to stay level 75 till your last day on the server? Lvl up and improve?

"In effect, this leaves only DT, Red Forest, and Helia as worthwhile content for that level range — which feels unbalanced and limiting."
Like that isn't enough? I often see ppl 75-80 in ghost forest aswell so... u point that u can't do solo this dungeons. But you point the dungeons which can't be done solo on 105 aswell?

 

[Adveres]

Hey @ninja , could you read what I wrote again—this time actually understanding it? i can do both dungeons with no problem, thing is, why am i rewarded with exactly same drop as 105 lvl characters which can do these way faster (40min at 75 and 20min and 105 at azrael and around 3 mins to 10 at dragon), meanwhile all other dungeons have drop scalled to lvl like it should always could be. The amount of content at ALL other level caps is way better, which makes 75 lvl boring at first, and not profitable at second point - changes would make dungeon drops more worthy

 

[Deleted member 2771]

Hey @ninja , could you read what I wrote again—this time actually understanding it? i can do both dungeons with no problem, thing is, why am i rewarded with exactly same drop as 105 lvl characters which can do these way faster (40min at 75 and 20min and 105 at azrael and around 3 mins to 10 at dragon), meanwhile all other dungeons have drop scalled to lvl like it should always could be. The amount of content at ALL other level caps is way better, which makes 75 lvl boring at first, and not profitable at second point - changes would make dungeon drops more worthy

Because 105 players spent time and 50x the amount of yang on their items to do it in 20minutes. There is absolutly no reason for a lvl75 to be remotly close to a 105 Azrael farmer and the range from 75-105 doesn't mean that 75 is the best level for the dungeon(Azrael is a lvl95 Boss). Why should a lvl75 who invested 2kkk in azrael items get more drop then the player who has a 50kkk weapon?

 

[MIDNITE]

Same logic should apply to the Baroness then, yet it isnt... thats where the problem is.

Because 105 players spent time and 50x the amount of yang on their items to do it in 20minutes. There is absolutly no reason for a lvl75 to be remotly close to a 105 Azrael farmer and the range from 75-105 doesn't mean that 75 is the best level for the dungeon(Azrael is a lvl95 Boss). Why should a lvl75 who invested 2kkk in azrael items get more drop then the player who has a 50kkk weapon?

 

[Synesthesia]

It’s clear you have no real idea of what’s actually needed to run Razador or Earth Dragon. These are high-level, demanding dungeons.
Most players at level 96+ can barely manage Azrael or Beran. Now imagine removing even those..might as well uninstall the game at that point

 

[Deleted member 2771]

Same logic should apply to the Baroness then, yet it isnt... thats where the problem is.

Azrael and Aqua also Earth drake cannot be compared to Naaga and Baroness i dont know what you think you should drop at naaga at lvl60 or baroness at lvl90 for that matter, they have no value of items for high level.

First of all from Azrael you get access to high level items needed for PVM and PVP. From Azrael items you make Nemere items(Which is a 105 Dungeon only btw) and i don't see the point of a lvl75 Farmer asking for more drop or suggesting a restriction to lvl 90 when the items are litreally needed and used by 90+ 100+players and when he doesn't plan on going higher and doesn't want to invest to have the same access to these things compared to a lvl 105 player who actually needs this stuff and can use it.​

Aqua is the same for that matter, and Earth dragon is an even worse dungeon to include in this because it drops stuff for 90+ Gear which a level 75 should not have access to. As for the matter of side drops and general drop, Azrael and Aqua are set to drop same amount of Coffers to all levels and at Azrael a lower level char has a greater chance to drop more ores if that helps out your case.​

And if you think that a +9 Solar Blade or +9 Rune Sword is gonna make you run Azrael in 15 minutes or help you solo kill Earth Drake you are mistaken. Players are running dungeons at higher level with 3-4+ characters which are stocked with items to be able to make that short time possible and some dungeons cannot be even done solo without help or pushes. There is no logic to compare Baroness drop for high level players to Azrael drop for high level players when Azrael is needed for high level items and baroness has no value at high level there for it shouldn't drop as much compared to lower level drops.​

And another point for @Adveres if you want to run Azrael faster then 40 minutes make yourself 4 charactes make lvl 90-100Pets(10Agression) buy items for all of them and run it faster like the Higher level players are doing. You expect to invest the minimum required and get the maximum in return.


A person who invests more should be rewarded more. That's the case in Real Life and that should be the case everywhere else​

 

[Adveres]

Hey guys, thanks for taking part in the discussion—I really appreciate it!

@corvvoattano, I’d like you to respond to my question. As you mentioned: "There is no logic in comparing Baroness drops for high-level players to Azrael drops for high-level players when Azrael is required for high-level items, while Baroness has no value at high level. Therefore, it shouldn’t drop as much compared to lower-level content."


You're absolutely right on that point. But let’s look at the numbers:
Spending 20 minutes at Baroness at level 50 gives you around 80kk worth of drops, and you only need a 4-5kkk character to do it.


Meanwhile, Azrael requires a 50kkk weapon and 3-4 characters with level 100 pets and 10 aggression each. In 20 minutes, that setup gets you 5 Azrael chests, which are worth around 85kk right now (- 16kk heads) and sometimes even less - down to 60kk.


Now here's my question: could you calculate how many Azraels you’d need to run just to cover the cost of the weapon alone, not to mention the rest of the gear?
Because honestly, how is that even remotely worth it at level 105?

 

[ninja]

Hey guys, thanks for taking part in the discussion—I really appreciate it!

@corvvoattano, I’d like you to respond to my question. As you mentioned: "There is no logic in comparing Baroness drops for high-level players to Azrael drops for high-level players when Azrael is required for high-level items, while Baroness has no value at high level. Therefore, it shouldn’t drop as much compared to lower-level content."


You're absolutely right on that point. But let’s look at the numbers:
Spending 20 minutes at Baroness at level 50 gives you around 80kk worth of drops, and you only need a 4-5kkk character to do it.


Meanwhile, Azrael requires a 50kkk weapon and 3-4 characters with level 100 pets and 10 aggression each. In 20 minutes, that setup gets you 5 Azrael chests, which are worth around 85kk right now (- 16kk heads) and sometimes even less - down to 60kk.


Now here's my question: could you calculate how many Azraels you’d need to run just to cover the cost of the weapon alone, not to mention the rest of the gear?
Because honestly, how is that even remotely worth it at level 105?

With that 80kk each baroness u went to far. xd
80kk is when you have the best drop from the chest + the side drop. Calculating the value of the best drop as it is 100% drop every run. And every arachnid cost aswell.
Be consistent in your calculations otherwise u will end up with your own story.

"Reduce the maximum level for Azrael and Dragon to level 90"

Man, your ideas are crazy. U want to limit the dungeons like that. And I bet most of the 105 doesn't care, but when u will be upgrading your 90 weapons and armour, u will be dlthe one crying that upgrade materials are 500kk each

 

[Adveres]

@ninja, I've already noticed you're not exactly the sharpest. I said it's around 80kk per 20 minutes on Baroness (2 Baroness runs, 40kk each — which, after 150 dungeon runs, is the average drop at level 50). If you have a better idea on how to fix the market and make dungeons actually worth doing, I'd love to hear your proposal. Because right now, both of these dungeons just aren't worth running. About the lvl limitation, it was only one of the ideas, there are a lot of things we can do here, like, for example, adding side drop besides chest which is available only at lower lvl

 

[ninja]

@ninja, I've already noticed you're not exactly the sharpest. I said it's around 80kk per 20 minutes on Baroness (2 Baroness runs, 40kk each — which, after 150 dungeon runs, is the average drop at level 50). If you have a better idea on how to fix the market and make dungeons actually worth doing, I'd love to hear your proposal. Because right now, both of these dungeons just aren't worth running. About the lvl limitation, it was only one of the ideas, there are a lot of things we can do here, like, for example, adding side drop besides chest which is available only at lower lvl

So u still compared the 20-25 minutes in game doing azrael and 1 hour just on Baroness. Get help. Simple facts, go move your ass and earn some money or just go and try to force your point of view over and over. For me market is pretty fine, looks like u are just nitpicking. So stay on your lvl 50 and exploit that infinite money loop. Dungeons are not worth to do, sure. Ppl just do it as entertainment.

 

[Adveres]

@ninja Azrael has a 1-hour cooldown, while Baroness has only a 30-minute cooldown. You can finish Baroness in about 10 minutes with all eggs and a level 50 character with around 5kkk budget.

Azrael, on the other hand, takes about 20 minutes and requires 3–4 characters, each with a budget that's about 50 times higher, just to get the same money per hour in-game and for the time spent.


If that somehow makes sense to you, you're either delusional or not thinking clearly.

 

[ninja]

3-4 chars doing azrael. Interesting... Stay at your lvl 50 and comment the high level content that u have no clue about. Dungeon is a addition. So u still need to be 1 hour in the game to catch the guy which was playing 20-25 minutes. Rational thinking is not your strong side.

 

[Skullek]

Because 105 players spent time and 50x the amount of yang on their items to do it in 20minutes.

And 60 level players made much effort to go to Honobo Dungeon and beating Walking Ape. Does it mean they should have a drop from it?
75 level player for sure will beat Naaga faster than 60 we should let him be there. He made some much effort to make that poison or grudge to +9, let him be there.
If lower level dungeons have a level limit, higher ones should have it too. Gentlemen are outraged because others want to take away your toys.
Taking Azrael away from X lvl (The level limit is up for discussion) won't mean you won't have anything to do anymore.

First of all from Azrael you get access to high level items needed for PVM and PVP. From Azrael items you make Nemere items(Which is a 105 Dungeon only btw) and i don't see the point of a lvl75 Farmer asking for more drop or suggesting a restriction to lvl 90 when the items are litreally needed and used by 90+ 100+players and when he doesn't plan on going higher and doesn't want to invest to have the same access to these things compared to a lvl 105 player who actually needs this stuff and can use it.

Remember your roots... This is the same mechanism from low level dungeons moved to higher levels. Naaga is a necessary dungeon to get items needed for the fast development of the pet. Which is necessary in the further game.
But at the same time, no one is stopping you from evolving a pet when you're at 80lvl, does that mean that lvl 80 should have access to naaga?
If you want to get a belt from the Baroness at level 95, does that mean you should have access to this dungeon?

 

[Adveres]

@ninja I just quoted what the guys above said — with 3-4 chars to do Azrael in 20 minutes. I see you're twisting logic into a joke again.

 

[Deleted member 2771]

And 60 level players made much effort to go to Honobo Dungeon and beating Walking Ape. Does it mean they should have a drop from it?
75 level player for sure will beat Naaga faster than 60 we should let him be there. He made some much effort to make that poison or grudge to +9, let him be there.
If lower level dungeons have a level limit, higher ones should have it too. Gentlemen are outraged because others want to take away your toys.
Taking Azrael away from X lvl (The level limit is up for discussion) won't mean you won't have anything to do anymore.


Remember your roots... This is the same mechanism from low level dungeons moved to higher levels. Naaga is a necessary dungeon to get items needed for the fast development of the pet. Which is necessary in the further game.
But at the same time, no one is stopping you from evolving a pet when you're at 80lvl, does that mean that lvl 80 should have access to naaga?
If you want to get a belt from the Baroness at level 95, does that mean you should have access to this dungeon?

Again you are comparing Naaga and Baroness to end game dungeons which doesn't make any sense at all. Naaga is entry level dungeon and doesnt require any specific items to beat it, and besides pet stuff is useless going forward. Anyone can make a pet at any level and the point of the dungeon being on that level range is to make your pet before you advance further and never touch it again. And again comparing Baroness to Azrael, you are comparing a 700kk belt from Baroness with a 10kkk item from Azrael. Any 96 player and above is using Souls Belts they aint using Baroness belts besides maybe Linen Belt on some occasions. Now a 90+ player can use all items from Azrael Earings,Bracelet,Necklece, 105 Players use these as well and if they want they evolve them to Nemere items. So tell me now whats your point in Making Azrael 75-90 dungeon? You want to control the market in that level range with the minimum requierments and minimum investment for items needed in end-game, make it make sense please.

 

[ninja]

Again you are comparing Naaga and Baroness to end game dungeons which doesn't make any sense at all. Naaga is entry level dungeon and doesnt require any specific items to beat it, and besides pet stuff is useless going forward. Anyone can make a pet at any level and the point of the dungeon being on that level range is to make your pet before you advance further and never touch it again. And again comparing Baroness to Azrael, you are comparing a 700kk belt from Baroness with a 10kkk item from Azrael. Any 96 player and above is using Souls Belts they aint using Baroness belts besides maybe Linen Belt on some occasions. Now a 90+ player can use all items from Azrael Earings,Bracelet,Necklece, 105 Players use these as well and if they want they evolve them to Nemere items. So tell me now whats your point in Making Azrael 75-90 dungeon? You want to control the market in that level range with the minimum requierments and minimum investment for items needed in end-game, make it make sense please.

There is no point to talk with these clowns mac lvl 75 will tell the others how the game should looks like. That guy above says that people do azrael on 4 chars to do it in 20 minutes xd. And wants to max lvl 90 for aqua where the boss has 97... I sometimes feel that they should do that and few days later ppl starts crying there in so upragrade materials from aqua and azrael cuz the only few people can do it.
It is my last post in this clowns fiesta.

 

[Skullek]

There is no point to talk with these clowns mac lvl 75 will tell the others how the game should looks like. That guy above says that people do azrael on 4 chars to do it in 20 minutes xd. And wants to max lvl 90 for aqua where the boss has 97... I sometimes feel that they should do that and few days later ppl starts crying there in so upragrade materials from aqua and azrael cuz the only few people can do it.
It is my last post in this clowns fiesta.

First, please don't offend anyone. You can look for a clown in a mirror if you want to. 2nd of all it was corrvo that was writing about making 4 chars to do it faster, maybe learn the whole topic first or learn to read at all. Cause it's not the first time you have a problem with it

 

[ninja]

First, please don't offend anyone. You can look for a clown in a mirror if you want to. 2nd of all it was corrvo that was writing about making 4 chars to do it faster, maybe learn the whole topic first or learn to read at all. Cause it's not the first time you have a problem with it

Just a few simple question. What lvl are you? How many azrael, aqua dungeons have u made that ur an expert in that topic? That was what your friend said about 4 chars so I answer him. Looks like u share 70 Iq aswell

 

[Adveres]

Just a few simple question. What lvl are you? How many azrael, aqua dungeons have u made that ur an expert in that topic? That was what your friend said about 4 chars so I answer him. Looks like u share 70 Iq aswell

Please use proper English grammar — it's quite hard to understand your point of view.
And please re-read the topic we're discussing before posting again, as you still haven’t addressed our main point: that dungeons are not worth doing, which doesn't make any logic sense.