Weapon Sura Pvp DMG

[Cluss]

Hello there Wom2 Warriors,

I’d like to share my point of view as a well-known player here.

First of all, many players and staff members see the weekly Dojang, and I love that at least in the lower brackets, I see many people participating. Whether it's for BP or not, it just looks really cool.

But then we look at the 105 bracket.

From my point of view as Exeragon, a fully built, fully geared, maxed-out character I buff myself to get more damage and cooldown reduction. Then I fight against DonPablo.

The description of Dispel says there's a 70% chance to remove my abilities (haha), but for me, it seems like 100%, because I never see it fail.

Okay, let the Suras have it. But here’s what really bothers me: not only do I lose all my bonus damage and movement speed, it also makes him deal more damage to me.

That just doesn’t feel fair.

Either I should deal less damage, or he should deal more—both happening at once doesn’t make sense in a fight between two maxed-out players. It’s already not the most balanced PvP scenario.

I’m not even complaining about the desync or the “Bluetooth hits” that teleport me back 2–3 steps. It’s an old game, spaghetti code—we get it.

But this big of a difference in damage, even though both characters are maxed out, feels unhealthy overall and doesn’t allow for any real counterplay.

So I’d really like to hear everyone else's opinions—especially DonPablo’s.

Thanks for reading and for your attention.

Regards,
Cluss / Patrick

 

[Pushergene]

+1

 

[Stforjanka]

So you want to equalize balance for all classes for 1v1? So how will that work, sura will get a nerf, further falling behind in opvp, and healer gets stronger in comparison, while keeping his absolutely ridiculous opvp capabilities?

You've chosen opvp class, you should play to it's strenghts (if only opvp wasnt dead), and let 1v1 centric classes be 1v1 centric. Dispell is a single target skill, makes sense that it gives advantage in 1v1. Healer has very strong buffs and utility, makes sense that he gains less in 1v1 small arena setting.

Isn't this common sense? U got strong and u want to win dojangs now, but ure limited by the balance of ur class. That absolutely makes sense and is fair. You shouldnt be able, as opvp class, to win 1v1, vs duel centric class, provided both are maxed out.

 

[Dirtybynature]

Hello there Wom2 Warriors,

I’d like to share my point of view as a well-known player here.

First of all, many players and staff members see the weekly Dojang, and I love that at least in the lower brackets, I see many people participating. Whether it's for BP or not, it just looks really cool.

But then we look at the 105 bracket.

From my point of view as Exeragon, a fully built, fully geared, maxed-out character I buff myself to get more damage and cooldown reduction. Then I fight against DonPablo.

The description of Dispel says there's a 70% chance to remove my abilities (haha), but for me, it seems like 100%, because I never see it fail.

Okay, let the Suras have it. But here’s what really bothers me: not only do I lose all my bonus damage and movement speed, it also makes him deal more damage to me.

That just doesn’t feel fair.

Either I should deal less damage, or he should deal more—both happening at once doesn’t make sense in a fight between two maxed-out players. It’s already not the most balanced PvP scenario.

I’m not even complaining about the desync or the “Bluetooth hits” that teleport me back 2–3 steps. It’s an old game, spaghetti code—we get it.

But this big of a difference in damage, even though both characters are maxed out, feels unhealthy overall and doesn’t allow for any real counterplay.

So I’d really like to hear everyone else's opinions—especially DonPablo’s.

Thanks for reading and for your attention.

Regards,
Cluss / Patrick

Truly regarded.

 

[Cluss]

So you want to equalize balance for all classes for 1v1? So how will that work, sura will get a nerf, further falling behind in opvp, and healer gets stronger in comparison, while keeping his absolutely ridiculous opvp capabilities?

You've chosen opvp class, you should play to it's strenghts (if only opvp wasnt dead), and let 1v1 centric classes be 1v1 centric. Dispell is a single target skill, makes sense that it gives advantage in 1v1. Healer has very strong buffs and utility, makes sense that he gains less in 1v1 small arena setting.

Isn't this common sense? U got strong and u want to win dojangs now, but ure limited by the balance of ur class. That absolutely makes sense and is fair. You shouldnt be able, as opvp class, to win 1v1, vs duel centric class, provided both are maxed out.

in what world or server is Healer not a 1 v 1 Class like please are you for real?!
i would get it if i said this pov with Kreatos, but lets be real here.
I dont know if its still a secret to you guys but yes Nature of enchant also buffs magic damage its not only dmg for physical classes
And also dont forget this increased dmg from dispell got added like last year, soo ya just ,,protect'' DonPablo.

 

[Cluss]

Exe his reply, enjoy

 

[Tekno]

Nothing can be considered actually 1v1 optimised since the desync affects everyone and it's mostly noticeable in 1v1 scenarios. Especially at dojang where you get only 1 shot at beating your opponent else you're out. From getting stuck at the wall (mild bug) to desync where your opponent hits you several times while being on the opposite site of arena (severe issue) (will consider making a compilation for people to watch).

So you want to equalize balance for all classes for 1v1?

Here, in the dojang settings, can the winners be actually named winners if the fights include severe server-side bugs?
In the alleged match-up of weapon sura vs a healer mage, considering a perfect server-side sync the healer should have a major advantage - the distance and the cooldowns. With the knockback the weapon sura should not be able to get on the mage and lock them in a fixed position. However, as we know, truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is. Now go and support the server by buying the 2-year anniversary costume for 500dc. Your donation might one day find its way into the pocket of a dev who will be capable of fixing the desync.

 

[Stforjanka]

Just because you make a bitch out of the "no counterplay" phrase doesn't make the argument any valid.

It doesnt matter how the class is perceived in Metin history, it only matters how it works here. So you can ask for healer rework, not sura rework, if u want to address this issue.

Youre not exactly dumb so you do understand why this works the way it does, you just wish it worked differently to have a go at dojang.

But lets assume you wear Philip plein sets unironically and really dont get it.

If you were to prepare for opvp/GT, would you ever pick weapon sura over healer? Even if enemy team had strong BM? You wouldnt, even if they were equal strength. In fact - you wouldnt pick weapon sura even if he had stronger gear than the healer, because healer brings so much more to the table in opvp.

So youre asking for balance in 1v1, because you cant compete with weapon sura if youre equal, but ure missing the fact that u would not pick weapon sura for opvp, even if it was stronger, let alone equal.

With the current balance - its absolutely no discussion, and u either know it, and dont like it, or managed to convince urself that its actually unfair.

 

[Basim]

So youre asking for balance in 1v1, because you cant compete with weapon sura if youre equal,

He's asking for 1v1 balance not as healer but just as a player tired of having fun lag from dispell and then getting 2shot from wp sura with little to no time to react XD you could argue he was crying for 1v1 balance if he was talking from the NuMbEr OnE pLaYeR that gets lost on his own keyboard pov but he's not.
Also, aren't you not playing anymore? Why are you still on this forum? Not asking to attack you just wondering what's your gain

 

[Blasphem]

Hi all,

I’d like to clarify something regarding the current functionality of the Sura's Dispel skill, since it’s discussed without considering its full background.

The changes to Dispel didn’t happen randomly – they have historical roots and were made for specific, well-considered reasons. I often read that “this server is different” and “it’s pointless to bring up the past,” but that’s not entirely accurate. The current server is clearly built on the foundation of the old one. While some things have changed, many of the adjustments implemented over time have been carried over and consolidated here. That context is important if we want to understand the current "as is" state of things.

Back on the old server, Dispel had its original functionality: it removed buffs but didn’t increase damage. However, what made it extremely powerful was its long duration, which could be extended with the Leadership skill “Duration Process.” This led to scenarios – especially in guild wars – where classes like Aura Warriors or BM Suras were completely neutralized. The common strategy was to hit them with Dispel early in the fight and then leave them alive just to keep them powerless. We won multiple Guild Tournaments this way. Those who played back then will remember it well. In short, some classes were rendered almost useless in open PvP due to how Dispel worked.

Following that, there was a long period – roughly two years – of discussion and feedback gathering on the forum. Eventually, a PvP balance update was implemented (if I’m not mistaken, the DEV in charge at the time was Think). That update was generally well received by the community, because it introduced a more dynamic PvP system where class matchups mattered. For example, Weapon Sura was (and still is) strong against Aura Warrior/BM Sura; BM Sura was strong against Dagger Ninja; Dagger Ninja countered Weapon Sura, and so on.

This rock-paper-scissors logic meant that, assuming equal gear and level, Dojang results were often uncertain and matchup-dependent – which is exactly how it should be. I believe the same logic applies even now on this server. The issue is that too few players reach endgame PvP level, likely due to the overall difficulty of the server. And if it’s always the same two players of the same two classes competing, of course the stronger class will keep winning. That’s normal and even desirable – otherwise we’d just have a bunch of classes with identical pros and cons, making specialization meaningless.

Moreover As already mentioned above, there are classes that truly shine in OPvP, whether due to their AoE damage capabilities or their support abilities (such as mages). Understandably, they pay the price of being slightly less effective in some specific one-on-one scenarios.

If I had to point out what I think limits healthy PvP right now, I’d say:

1. Damage is too high overall, which makes fights end too quickly. Often, the player with the biggest burst in the first few seconds wins – not necessarily the better player who could win over time by playing well and adapting. There are classes that need more time to fully express their potential in a duel.
2. Desync (or however we want to call it) is a big issue. It makes some matchups unplayable – for example, fighting an Aura Warrior often results in being stuck or unable to react at all, which completely ruins the PvP experience.

Of course, this is just my personal opinion based to my memories since there is no way to recover the old forum discussions. I’m not claiming to have a complete or absolutely correct perspective. My goal is simply to provide some background to help understand the current “as is” situation (which might seem like the default state here, but is actually the result of a long process), as well as the side effects of reverting things to how they were before the PvP balance update.

What seems not to be working right now has more to do with higher overall PvP damage and the lack of high-level players actively competing, rather than specific class buffs or nerfs.

 

[Cluss]

Hi all,

I’d like to clarify something regarding the current functionality of the Sura's Dispel skill, since it’s discussed without considering its full background.

The changes to Dispel didn’t happen randomly – they have historical roots and were made for specific, well-considered reasons. I often read that “this server is different” and “it’s pointless to bring up the past,” but that’s not entirely accurate. The current server is clearly built on the foundation of the old one. While some things have changed, many of the adjustments implemented over time have been carried over and consolidated here. That context is important if we want to understand the current "as is" state of things.

Back on the old server, Dispel had its original functionality: it removed buffs but didn’t increase damage. However, what made it extremely powerful was its long duration, which could be extended with the Leadership skill “Duration Process.” This led to scenarios – especially in guild wars – where classes like Aura Warriors or BM Suras were completely neutralized. The common strategy was to hit them with Dispel early in the fight and then leave them alive just to keep them powerless. We won multiple Guild Tournaments this way. Those who played back then will remember it well. In short, some classes were rendered almost useless in open PvP due to how Dispel worked.

Following that, there was a long period – roughly two years – of discussion and feedback gathering on the forum. Eventually, a PvP balance update was implemented (if I’m not mistaken, the DEV in charge at the time was Think). That update was generally well received by the community, because it introduced a more dynamic PvP system where class matchups mattered. For example, Weapon Sura was (and still is) strong against Aura Warrior/BM Sura; BM Sura was strong against Dagger Ninja; Dagger Ninja countered Weapon Sura, and so on.

This rock-paper-scissors logic meant that, assuming equal gear and level, Dojang results were often uncertain and matchup-dependent – which is exactly how it should be. I believe the same logic applies even now on this server. The issue is that too few players reach endgame PvP level, likely due to the overall difficulty of the server. And if it’s always the same two players of the same two classes competing, of course the stronger class will keep winning. That’s normal and even desirable – otherwise we’d just have a bunch of classes with identical pros and cons, making specialization meaningless.

Moreover As already mentioned above, there are classes that truly shine in OPvP, whether due to their AoE damage capabilities or their support abilities (such as mages). Understandably, they pay the price of being slightly less effective in some specific one-on-one scenarios.

If I had to point out what I think limits healthy PvP right now, I’d say:

1. Damage is too high overall, which makes fights end too quickly. Often, the player with the biggest burst in the first few seconds wins – not necessarily the better player who could win over time by playing well and adapting. There are classes that need more time to fully express their potential in a duel.
2. Desync (or however we want to call it) is a big issue. It makes some matchups unplayable – for example, fighting an Aura Warrior often results in being stuck or unable to react at all, which completely ruins the PvP experience.

Of course, this is just my personal opinion based to my memories since there is no way to recover the old forum discussions. I’m not claiming to have a complete or absolutely correct perspective. My goal is simply to provide some background to help understand the current “as is” situation (which might seem like the default state here, but is actually the result of a long process), as well as the side effects of reverting things to how they were before the PvP balance update.

What seems not to be working right now has more to do with higher overall PvP damage and the lack of high-level players actively competing, rather than specific class buffs or nerfs.

And this is the thing that bothers me with dispell, that not only i lose my dmg but also he makes more dmg, one of each is more then enough.
here is the pov from last dojang.

And again im not even complaining about this grab at second 6, its just tell me my counterplay to this absurd dmg i got

 

[Blasphem]

And this is the thing that bothers me with dispell, that not only i lose my dmg but also he makes more dmg, one of each is more then enough.
here is the pov from last dojang.

And again im not even complaining about this grab at second 6, its just tell me my counterplay to this absurd dmg i got

Sure, I understand, but as mentioned, what you're referring to in relation to Diespel, is a buff (to power) that followed a debuff (to duration). It was deemed as a necessary balance adjustment back than.

As I said, if there were more players at your level across different classes, it could very well happen that, for example, a ninja defeats the sura, and you then defeat the ninja in the final or, ofc, the opposite, depending on the RNG of machmaking. When facing a weapon sura as a mage (even assuming you have the same items and alchemy, which I can’t know), it’s entirely plausible that, in most cases, the Sura weapon would win.

That's precisely because some classes are stronger in 1v1s than in open PvP, and some perform better in specific 1v1 matchups compared to others. This is the case of weapon sura or aura warriors. In my opinion, this makes perfectly sense, but clearly the combat mechanics would be more interesting and would give less of a sense of powerlessness if damage were better balanced, either through restoring the proper functionality of defenses (which currently as we all know have an effective value of only 50% of their nominal value), or through a reduction in desync during fights.

 

[Tasky]

And this is the thing that bothers me with dispell, that not only i lose my dmg but also he makes more dmg, one of each is more then enough.
here is the pov from last dojang.

And again im not even complaining about this grab at second 6, its just tell me my counterplay to this absurd dmg i got

Regarding your argument about losing your "damage"—isn't the whole purpose of Dispel to remove buffs or skills? When a warrior's aura gets dispelled, they lose both Aura and Berserk. Same applies to mages; they lose their buffs too. In that sense, Dispel is working exactly as intended.

On the old server, the healer didn't have a stun (precisely the slow and pushback of that skill ) skill in their kit like they do now. So technically, both classes have seen changes, some buffs, some shifts in playstyle.

What’s really happening here is that the healer gets outclassed by a Weaponary Sura in full vs. full fights. Just like:

• BM will always beat Aura,
• Aura will always beat Dagger,
• Dagger will always beat Archer, and so on.

When it comes to open PvP (OPvP), there’s no debate—healer is easily 10x more efficient, useful, and powerful. There's a balance in place. You can't expect one class to dominate both OPvP and 1v1 scenarios.

 

[Cluss]

Regarding your argument about losing your "damage"—isn't the whole purpose of Dispel to remove buffs or skills? When a warrior's aura gets dispelled, they lose both Aura and Berserk. Same applies to mages; they lose their buffs too. In that sense, Dispel is working exactly as intended.

On the old server, the healer didn't have a stun (precisely the slow and pushback of that skill ) skill in their kit like they do now. So technically, both classes have seen changes, some buffs, some shifts in playstyle.

What’s really happening here is that the healer gets outclassed by a Weaponary Sura in full vs. full fights. Just like:

• BM will always beat Aura,
• Aura will always beat Dagger,
• Dagger will always beat Archer, and so on.

When it comes to open PvP (OPvP), there’s no debate—healer is easily 10x more efficient, useful, and powerful. There's a balance in place. You can't expect one class to dominate both OPvP and 1v1 scenarios.

yeah thats the thing about it, get my spells, dispell them okay, BUT also deal 15% more damage is way too much , then make the dispell chance lower to 50% and leave it as it is.
Well i will participate every dojang and count the dispell hits, but so far, 0 missed on Exe...

 

[Dirtybynature]

@Asteria , @Snake, @VegaS, do you maybe already have a plan to address the outstanding concerns pertaining to pvp defense slacing or lack therefore game lag once dispel or heal is triggered, and other topics that were in-depth discussed on the forum? It does not make any sense to have fruitless discussions without any feedback from your end?

 

[Stforjanka]

We're on wom so its not like the discussion will bear ANY results, and I hope everyone here is experienced enough to know it at this point. As result, we're just hypothesizing, so I dont feel the need to be biased against the suggestion.

I dont understand the "counterplay" argument. Metin2 is not built around such concept, as skill expression in this archaic PoS pvp system is lackluster to say the least. Can archer counterplay equal dagger? Should he? Can dragon counterplay equal mental on small arena? Should he? Can mental counterplay equal BM? Should he?

There are classes that do better or worse against each other. Lets not pretend like counterplayability is part of the discussion, especially with this level of desync.

Any random noveau-riche troglodyte can pour 100k euro, make a BM, and dominate, even if hes pressing skills with his mouse. Then a weapon sura comes and swipes him, just because of the matchup. Then something else comes and swipes the sura. But it sure shouldnt be healer, because of how much he already has, outside of 1v1.

The real discussion should be around, is there a class that can 1v1 weapon sura and lose to another class at the same time, assuming equal items. And if theres not, then should there be? If weapon sura sucks balls opvp, then no, there shouldnt, as that's the only avenue it excels in. If not, then maybe. Not on this server tho.

And again - is it fair that 1v1 is 80% matchup dependent? Not really, but most games have this issue, in Metin its on steroids because how simple and buggy the game is.

Also, imagine playing the weapon sura and having 50% to miss the dispell. I would rather not use it at all to not get tilted by such rng. It should be 100% and nerfed.

In an ideal world the correct order to go forward would be to:
1. Fix desync
2. Balance pvp and opvp, taking into consideration both as counter-weights

That won't happen here.

 

[Cluss]

up

 

[Exeragon105]

Nice Meme Nice Meme 2.0 Nice Meme 3.0 Nice Meme 4.0

 

[Cluss]

still sura am needs nerf and desync bug as sura weapon, needs to be fixed immediatly!

 

[Ano]

Impedanz and his brother BabaGanoush can fix the wp sura feel free to ask dear wom team