[PvP] Defence Scaling

[PlaQ]

It appears that the defense mechanics in PvP do not function the same as they do on other servers, contributing to the issue of excessive PvP damage in the game. To assess this, I conducted tests using the same skill multiple times in each phase to ensure accurate observations.

Phase 1: No EQ
- Skill DMG: 2930-2970

Phase 2: 15 Defence
- Skill DMG: 2740-2780

Phase 3: 30 Defence
- Skill DMG: 2550-2590

Phase 4: 45 Defence
- Skill DMG: 2310-2340

Phase 5: 60 Defence
- Skill DMG: 2130-2160

So, adding 60% sword defense only reduces the damage by approximately 800 points, or around 27-30%. This wasn't the case on Old WoM2, and I've tested it on both official and other servers, where the results were completely different as well.

To provide further specificity, I'll offer two additional examples:
- On Old WoM2, I could engage in Open PvP against level 110 characters with my level 59 character, and even the most powerful characters at higher levels required 2-3 skills to defeat me, despite having superior equipment and more pushing power to what exist at the moment.
- I could also defeat all PvM characters, including those at level 110 with full PvM equipment, while using full PvP gear on a level 59 character. However, on this current situation of WoM2, I'm almost instantly taken out by PvM-equipped characters, despite wearing full PvP gear + PvP Alchemy at level 59.

 

[Momo]

I'm almost instantly taken out by PvM-equipped characters

yup. no reaction whatsoever in most of scenarios

 

[PlaQ]

I don't really see a problem in those defences not actually reducing the damage by the exact %.
Besides sword/weapon defence you have: Skill Damage Resistance, Race Resistance, Gray Liquids, Tiger Bracelets etc. and Nemere Items aren't even out there yet.

Just because you don't have access to them at this time and more specifically at your level, it doesn't mean there aren't Damage Reduction stuff on server.
Making weapon defences more powerful will basically wipe out Ninja/Mental Warrior at high levels. Why would anyone play a character with easy-to-miss spells, high cooldowns. almost 0 utility, no buffs - just to deal 2-3k more and have like 40% less overall DPS, instead of a Mage class?

also imo this should never be a thing, in almost (if not in all) every other MMORPG you get wiped out if an end-game char simply stares at your low-medium one.

Your reply does not seem to understand what I am trying to imply here ---> Its not like it used to be (its worse).

I am not trying to say that they should reduce the DMG by the exact number, but rather that they are not actually working properly.

I have access to all the things you just mentioned and I had a 99 PvP char (who also had access to the things you mentioned).

The fact is that PvP damage is too high, we all know that. Besides giving more value to defences, you actually help classes like Ninja/WP Sura & Mental, but who am I to judge (I have played high pvp for about 15 years now on almost every server you can name, including official).

Besides that: It was ALWAYS a thing to be able to play low lvl PvP in Metin2. If you have advanced EQ & Alchemy at least vs PvM chars and medicore 75/90 PvP chars you should be able to not die 2 hits. Wom2 was quite famous for this and had a high player count playing 39/59/79 PvP.

 

[lilrock]

I agree to what PlaQ is saying, he kicked all the points in a clear way.

 

[PlaQ]

You started from lv 59 vs 110 to mediocre 75/90 chars -.-

The damage is too high at this moment (talking only about high lvl random oPvP fights, not full eq 1v1's) due to:
- the lack of Nemere Items
- Gray Liquids being extremely hard to craft (20% ones)
- too many pushes available that scale almost the same as CL4-5 alchemy (costumes, vitality stone, tiger items, liquids, guild potions, fishes etc)
- on top of those, the biggest atrocities: HERO'S MEDAL & Natures Enchantment (adding pure 8% skill damage, besides huge attack value)

I don't expect to be able to defeat any PvP characters at level 105, nor do I anticipate being anywhere near their level. I'm simply highlighting the disparity between what was achievable on the previous server compared to now. Despite having less powerful PvP equipment than before, the current situation is very different.
- Nemere Items won't address the issue correctly, as even PvM characters deal a lot of damage against opponents with full defences --> It would only maybe fix High PvP but as we can see the problem lies in low lvl as well.
- I agree on the Push situation. The Only PvP pushes should involve Liquids (which should be more obtainable) and Tiger/Dragon Push. All other pushing effects should exclusively function PvM only.

 

[r1r2r3]

Tell me you have no idea who PlaQ is without telling me you have no idea who PlaQ is.
I'll go second.

Save for end-game PvP, one thing I enjoyed on the old WoM is that a higher level/end-game character couldn't just go on a killing spree on lower level characters in map1. The low level always had the opportunity to just run away without getting zeroed in one attack. You could be 90+ and still need a couple of hits to take a lvl 40-50 in **** gear.

 

[PlaQ]

I would love to see a response as to why they made this change or if its even supposed to be like this. Its definetly not helping the PvP situation atm.

 

[Snake]

As far as I'm concerned, we haven't made any changes to PvP damage, and we don't plan to. Our calculations are based on the upcoming Nemere update and the subsequent gear releases. It wouldn't make sense to adjust things now, only to have them disrupted by new items in a month or two. Personally, I prefer to wait until we've reached the end of the current content cycle before reassessing PvP. Usually making a new set of calculations on pvp takes good months or even years.

Honestly, I fail to see why a lower-level player (let's say 20 or 30 levels behind) should be able to withstand hits from a higher-level player easily. It just doesn't make sense to me. If you're significantly lower level, it's unrealistic to expect to tank hits from someone much stronger. The essence of MMORPGs, in my view, is about progression and gearing up. In Metin2, you should strive to reach the level and gear of your opponents to stand a chance. That's why in Dojang, we have level intervals—to prevent unfair matchups where a significantly weaker player stands no chance against a stronger one.

 

[PlaQ]

As far as I'm concerned, we haven't made any changes to PvP damage, and we don't plan to. Our calculations are based on the upcoming Nemere update and the subsequent gear releases. It wouldn't make sense to adjust things now, only to have them disrupted by new items in a month or two. Personally, I prefer to wait until we've reached the end of the current content cycle before reassessing PvP. Usually making a new set of calculations on pvp takes good months or even years.

Honestly, I fail to see why a lower-level player (let's say 20 or 30 levels behind) should be able to withstand hits from a higher-level player easily. It just doesn't make sense to me. If you're significantly lower level, it's unrealistic to expect to tank hits from someone much stronger. The essence of MMORPGs, in my view, is about progression and gearing up. In Metin2, you should strive to reach the level and gear of your opponents to stand a chance. That's why in Dojang, we have level intervals—to prevent unfair matchups where a significantly weaker player stands no chance against a stronger one.

Well I failed to mention that it was not like this on Old Wom2. The claculations worked there different. I made the same test back then as well.

No one ever said it should be easy to defend itself. Its just a core Metin2 mechanic that was also there on the old Server and everyone loved it and no one complaied about it ever. Much stronger in Metin2 was always bound to having the right Bonuses, Equipment pieces & Alchemy and not the lvl of the player or the uslessness of defences.

 

[Snake]

I get it. Since I joined after the server opened, I can't say for certain about the situation. But I'm more than willing to check if there have been any changes. But again I am not keen in changing anything else at least until I see the pvp situation with nemere gear. I've tested the "high end" pvp with the last gear and it was better in terms of how long the fight lasted and such. But again this gear being available just for high level it won't affect the pvp between a lv 90 and a lv 105.

 

[PlaQ]

I get it. Since I joined after the server opened, I can't say for certain about the situation. But I'm more than willing to check if there have been any changes. But again I am not keen in changing anything else at least until I see the pvp situation with nemere gear. I've tested the "high end" pvp with the last gear and it was better in terms of how long the fight lasted and such. But again this gear being available just for high level it won't affect the pvp between a lv 90 and a lv 105.

Thats why I made this Post. My aim is to improve PvP in all ranges and not just high PvP with Nemere EQ. Sadly Nemere EQ wont fix lower lvl PvP. Since I tested a lot on both Servers I quickly realised that the defences here work different then they used to.

 

[PlaQ]

Any updates on this? For myself and many long-time Wom2 PvP players, it's crucial to know if you plan to make any changes in that area.

If it remains as it is currently:
- It devalues rare PvP equipment, especially those with very rare PvP bonuses.
- Makes equipment like the Falcon Shield / Alchemy Stones / Race Defence EQ more useful than they normally are.
- Shifts the focus to skill defense and race defense rather than specific weapon defenses.

Overall this is not what Wom2 was known for.

 

[Snake]

No changes will be made to defence systems at this moment. When all the pvp gear will come around, if there are any imbalances at the high level of pvp, we may adjust. For now everything stays the same.