Halved bonuses of Green Bonus Changers

[Pachol]

Hey,
I believe many of us missed important note about Green Bonus Changers:


What does it mean in practise?

• Normal Bonus Changer can roll:
  

  • +500/1000/1000/1500/2000 HP Bonus​
• Green Bonus Changer can roll:
  

  • +250/500/500/750/1000 HP Bonus​

It can be seen as a good idea if we want to motivate players to work on their level, instead of farming low level forever - that's a good approach.
If there is something else behind this idea, I'd like to know, but now, let me explain what's wrong with that.

Normal Bonus Changers can be used on those low level items, so even if you want to keep those low level items a bit "useless", they won't be. I heard from @Montag that "Normal changers are not necessary at low level and neither are the top bonuses.", then why do you allow those changers on low level items? Let them be weaker!
Having 'weak & easy to roll' bonuses would open gates for low level PvP for newbies that started playing WoM. I'm always into PvP activity thus idea of weaker bonuses can do its work but needs to be polished. Otherwise, we'll end up with high level accounts creating smurf accounts on perfect items that won't be possible to get for a new players. I don't suggest to let 3-day players to beat 2-months player but rolling decent items can motivate new players to start PvP, and if they enjoy it, they will try to reach end-game goals.
If they stop, it's nothing wrong, let them be low level chars forever, there is nothing wrong as long as they enjoy playing on WoM2 on their own rules, instead of being forced to play only on high level.

I know it's too late to change halved bonuses but I suggest you to remove the lowest tier of bonus, so player can roll +500/750/1000 HP bonus. Those items won't be used too much if player decide to level up, but they will be definitely helpful in the beginning, and in first steps into PvP.
There would be also some issues with items that will be necessary in end-game PvP, such as Leather Boots or Ebony Earrings but it can be easily fixed with a new, better items on higher level (f.e reworked Amethyst Earrings as a better version of EE).


Best regards,
Pachol.

 

[Garou]

I like the game-design idea behind it.
It's clear that the game-design department has a lot of expecience, but i'm gonna agree with Pachol. The way the idea has been executed may create some problems.

1) It doesn't trigger dopamine release.
To explain this point I'll make a simple question: Would you be more excited to buy a 10€ scratch and win knowing that you can win 100€ maximum, or when you know that you can win up to 100.000€?
The original metin2 game-design department implemented this dynamic pretty well, there's really high reward related to low investments (aka: low levels): You could drop Soul Stones from level 45 metins, 40% average full moon sword from bestial archer, +4 stones from lvl35 metins.

Would it feel exciting to switch an Ebony Earrings knowing the best you could get is a 5% - 7% - 7% - 7% - 7%?

2) It may unleash some loss aversion bias.
In general, when you want to encourage players on advancing on the game, it's a wiser option to give more on the second part of the game rather than to give less on the first part.
As returning to the examples i carried before, official metin2 still offered you the chance to drop Soul Stones and stones+4 at low levels, but if you advance that same drop is a lot easier.

A simple way to apply this same idea and switch it from a perspective of loss bias to a mindset of opportunity would be to still offer the probability of finding high bonuses, but a lower chance, an example may be as it follows


I'm pretty sure the chances for the white Bonus Changer itself are different, but i hope i conveyed the idea.
Regards, Garou

 

[Fujitora]

Or just keep it like on officials servers, green changers working just on armors and weapons.For me doesen`t really matter if we can get maximum with normal changers is not to harsh.Let`s say we don`t do it blindly like oficials servers and add idk armors,weapons and shields, for shields assumyng you need more changers to get good bonuses.

 

[Ulyse]

I don't see nothing good by reduce to 50% of green changers. They will be useful just for lvl 30 weapons, rest of items like leather boots, and the rest of items with defence of wind/fire/light, etc need to be rolling with normal changers, basically 90% of items we need to roll with normal changers. The market will be ruined by this, a lot of players will exit cuz they will not find normal changers to make some decent items. I encourage players to say it here if they like this or not.

 

[ehpoR]

I have created an account only to say that I agree with Pachol.

 

[Yamamoto]

Hello, I'm glad to see such in depth comments on the changers. This is what we made a forum for! I will discuss your ideas with the team tonight and get back to you.

 

[Yamamoto]

I like the game-design idea behind it.
It's clear that the game-design department has a lot of expecience, but i'm gonna agree with Pachol. The way the idea has been executed may create some problems.

1) It doesn't trigger dopamine release.
To explain this point I'll make a simple question: Would you be more excited to buy a 10€ scratch and win knowing that you can win 100€ maximum, or when you know that you can win up to 100.000€?
The original metin2 game-design department implemented this dynamic pretty well, there's really high reward related to low investments (aka: low levels): You could drop Soul Stones from level 45 metins, 40% average full moon sword from bestial archer, +4 stones from lvl35 metins.

Would it feel exciting to switch an Ebony Earrings knowing the best you could get is a 5% - 7% - 7% - 7% - 7%?

2) It may unleash some loss aversion bias.
In general, when you want to encourage players on advancing on the game, it's a wiser option to give more on the second part of the game rather than to give less on the first part.
As returning to the examples i carried before, official metin2 still offered you the chance to drop Soul Stones and stones+4 at low levels, but if you advance that same drop is a lot easier.

A simple way to apply this same idea and switch it from a perspective of loss bias to a mindset of opportunity would be to still offer the probability of finding high bonuses, but a lower chance, an example may be as it follows
View attachment 16

I'm pretty sure the chances for the white Bonus Changer itself are different, but i hope i conveyed the idea.
Regards, Garou

We have decided to accept this suggestion as it's well justified. Thank you.

 

[Pachol]

I'm glad to hear it, community power!

 

[Balconov]

I would like to ask about the mechanisms of green changers on 30lvl weapons.
Is there a lower chance of rolling high average dmg than with normal changers?
Because from what I understand there is more than 5 levels of average DMG possible, so how does it apply to such weapons?

 

[Essence]

I would like to ask about the mechanisms of green changers on 30lvl weapons.
Is there a lower chance of rolling high average dmg than with normal changers?
Because from what I understand there is more than 5 levels of average DMG possible, so how does it apply to such weapons?

No.

 

[ThePlayer]

Are all the bonuses giving lower values with Green Bonus Changer? Or only some of them?
Because I was able to obtain "Change to deal +10% melee damage and and absorb it as HP" on an armor.

 

[Chrizz]

Are all the bonuses giving lower values with Green Bonus Changer? Or only some of them?
Because I was able to obtain "Change to deal +10% melee damage and and absorb it as HP" on an armor.

the chance to roll higher Bonus is less, you will just get more often crap

 

[pisoaia]

this change for the green changers is pretty unnecessary in my opinion. Right now their only use is to roll average on 30 weapons. Other than that I've found myself selling them and buying normal changers to switch on gear for other stats, because it is simply not worth using the green changers, you lose more money using them than normal changers. Considering their only use is for items up to lv 40, I don't really understand why they are nerfed, it only makes the new player experience worse. Once some time passes and people will no longer need lv 30 weapons their value will be extremely low.
Not to mention that I'm not quite sure they are easier to farm than normal changers, from what I've experienced normal changers drop is the same.
Lastly, having them nerfed incentivisez credit card farming because everyone, regardless of the level, will buy normal changers to switch stats on their gear.

 

[Bardakus]

guys something to know about how the green changers are right now, there are 5 options of % when the bonus is set.
for exemple
if the bonus set on your armor is:
reflect
hp
earth
lightning
abs hp
there are 5 options of % that can be on the bonuses.
row1, row2, ..., row5.
some bonuses can be the max only on row5, or ir could be on 4 either, thats only for the dev's to know.
so, the green removes the 1st and 5th row, that's it...
for DMG and SDMG on 30 weapons, is another formula, it doesnt change nothing using the green or normal changers.

 

[Bardakus]

this change for the green changers is pretty unnecessary in my opinion. Right now their only use is to roll average on 30 weapons. Other than that I've found myself selling them and buying normal changers to switch on gear for other stats, because it is simply not worth using the green changers, you lose more money using them than normal changers. Considering their only use is for items up to lv 40, I don't really understand why they are nerfed, it only makes the new player experience worse. Once some time passes and people will no longer need lv 30 weapons their value will be extremely low.
Not to mention that I'm not quite sure they are easier to farm than normal changers, from what I've experienced normal changers drop is the same.
Lastly, having them nerfed incentivisez credit card farming because everyone, regardless of the level, will buy normal changers to switch stats on their gear.

i think they are nerf 'cause some itens 40- are used on PvP, in level 99- servers, like leather boots, ebony, gold neck... are some exemples, if those items could get easily good bonuses with green, everybody would be in city2 droping then and the new players will dispute respaw with everyone