Drop Rates with Buffer in group

[Reyhue]

So I was reading this on discord today and as much as what is said make sense (and I thank the GM for the explanation) I still think the whole thing goes quite unexplained in the actual game, since the only two options ( Distributed and Random) only offers a few words of text of explanation.
I also think that the idea of losing drop rate while in group with a buffer goes very much against the design of the game itself, since 99% of the time in this server you would want to farm with a buffer.
So my suggestion is:
Adding a "Damage" option, which should make it so that all the loot goes to the one that dealt the most damage to the mob/metin (or gradually, so that if a player has dealt 10% gets 10% of the loot, 0% gets 0% of the loot)
I haven't really played much in group with other active players, but if there is a worry of, for example, a leader changing the option last second against a boss, this could be done so that it requires a prompt from all players in the team to change the loot distribution.
If you don't like the suggestion, I would at least advice to have some sort of information page in the wiki about how groups works in detail.

 

[martian]

what? my buffer was lowering the drop rate the whole time.

 

[Cluss]

Open a 3rd client, keep the buff on red farmblock and your good

 

[r1r2r3]

I am more and more convinced that anyone in the staff but the GD and DEV teams has no clue how this server actually works.

There have been countless of players since the start asking this same question - does being in a party with my buff influence the drop chance? They always said no, it does not, even if it drops items with their names, who deals the damage, their drop chance is taken into account.
Ania, Baloo, SHeen, Ana, you name them - all were following the same tune "as long as your buffer doesn't attack, there's no impact on drop".

Now the information changes.

What's worse is that this happens with so many more things - pet EXP, drops unlocked at a certain level, and so on.
God forbid regular players need help with something, they'll be faced with conflicting information or with an uptight staff member.

 

[IDemonI]

I am more and more convinced that anyone in the staff but the GD and DEV teams has no clue how this server actually works.

There have been countless of players since the start asking this same question - does being in a party with my buff influence the drop chance? They always said no, it does not, even if it drops items with their names, who deals the damage, their drop chance is taken into account.
Ania, Baloo, SHeen, Ana, you name them - all were following the same tune "as long as your buffer doesn't attack, there's no impact on drop".

Now the information changes.

What's worse is that this happens with so many more things - pet EXP, drops unlocked at a certain level, and so on.
God forbid regular players need help with something, they'll be faced with conflicting information or with an uptight staff member.

Reminds me of the "100% working" alchemic scroll

 

[martian]

I am more and more convinced that anyone in the staff but the GD and DEV teams has no clue how this server actually works.

There have been countless of players since the start asking this same question - does being in a party with my buff influence the drop chance? They always said no, it does not, even if it drops items with their names, who deals the damage, their drop chance is taken into account.
Ania, Baloo, SHeen, Ana, you name them - all were following the same tune "as long as your buffer doesn't attack, there's no impact on drop".

Now the information changes.

What's worse is that this happens with so many more things - pet EXP, drops unlocked at a certain level, and so on.
God forbid regular players need help with something, they'll be faced with conflicting information or with an uptight staff member.

can you please make a list of these.

 

[BoyWithLove]

Yeah, i just want to know if my drop is worse with buff or not.. such a simple test would solve this, with a simple answer. Mods need to be on the same page, because they all give controversial answers.

 

[r1r2r3]

can you please make a list of these.

It's been a week and we received no official reply or clarification.
Apologies, but I've done my fair share of helping in the past and the treatment I received in return was poor enough.

There's no reason for me to help players more than the team themselves, especially when every single staff member seems to have a different "opinion" on how things work.

I noticed Fox Hunt drop buff ended on 17 Dec. in the evening.
I remember being there when the event finished and notice said "drop increased for 72 hours".

Can we really ask for more?
#discover.the.game

 

[owlyyy]

As former server developer I believe there could be few possible ways the final drop rate is calculated.

1) as solo player - not in team -
# purely individual drop chance based upon effects & character "status" #

- most likely the very most efficient way to get as much drop rate % as possible.

- 100% safe & guaranteed to reflect all the drop chance bonuses accordingly to their presence

2) as solo player - in a team - the fighter that deals dmg -
2.1) if rest of team is on same map but in proximity range beyond the experience share / drop chance bounds - drop chance retained as per 1)
2.2) ^ but if in the range, drop rate is individual per player and does not affect other members in team - drop chance retained as per 1)
2.2) ^ but if drop rate is calculated as within the team, considering the bonus rates of each member - let's count drop chance like that :

int = integer of additional drop chance

int p1 = your final drop rate as per 1)
int p2 = his final drop rate OR just bare 0.0 [ 2 possible options ]
int p3 = his final drop rate OR just bare 0.0 [ 2 possible options ]
int p4 = his final drop rate OR just bare 0.0 [ 2 possible options ]

value players = 1;
value droprate = p1;
if ( p2 online and in range ) then { p1 = p1 + p2 , players = players +1 )
if ( p3 online and in range ) then { p1 = p1 + p3 , players = players +1 )
if ( p4 online and in range ) then { p1 = p1 + p4 , players = players +1 )

assuming example situation: 3 people from party online , 4th offline,

p1 is you with total 150% bonus drop chance ,
p2 is your buff without additional drop chance,
p3 is some guy that asked you to level him up, he has 7day bonus from glove and votebuff bonus which sets him in 60% bonus drop chance value.
p4 is offline so he does not count nor matter for the calculation.

so that would result in theory in:

p1=1.5
p2=0
p3=0.6
p4=0

players=3

calculated drop value affected by nearby teammates: (p1+p2+p3+p4) / players = 2.1 / 3 = 0.7

###

That would result in the drop rate bonus chance distribution would be even in value of 70% for every affected player, meaning a player that is within the range & online.

Setting distributed / random in this theory would not affect these calculations in any means following the game logic I suspect might be in place since forever.

Good question, interesting topic, engaging. I'm curious as what's to come of this.

Safest option seems to be 1 & 2.1.

2.2 is desirable and would seem logical and proper - but it's risky as per thread initial post description.

2.3 could potentially be, in fact, the game drop chance as bonus % is calculated - and that would mean a lot - imagine having 150%, thinking it works like that all the time, but in fact it's only 70% (as per example).


####

I'm interested as what's actually true in the backend side

Happy holidays everyone & take care,

owlyyy

 

[Asteria]

Ania, Baloo, SHeen, Ana, you name them - all were following the same tune "as long as your buffer doesn't attack, there's no impact on drop

Actually we do not know the final drop rate calculations and how to know them when support team has no insight in such files, anyhow it shouldnt be a public info either in my opinion.

Also, perhaps if you buff yourself on shaman, her reflect skill can reflect some damage back to mobs in case she is attacked. Since no one knows for sure all i can say is, thats just a thought.

Regards

 

[Reyhue]

Look, I'm not necessarely advocating for releasing infos on a mathematical level or any of the sorts, but I would say that the game design very much should do its job to let you somewhat know if you are essentially halving your most important stat out of a silly mistake (because let's face it, in market based game like Metin2, drop rate is basically the most important stat out there). And that's also in the interest of the server, you really don't want new players to get bored of the game because they farmed 1h of Orc Tooths and got none out of it
Now,
Since when I posted this and Cluss pointed out the 3rd client thing I've been using a third client and blocking the drop with Farm Mode, and it actually works like wonder, which, to me, makes the whole thing even sillier, since it's not even about balancing when you can just hard fix it by having a 1lvl character opened on the side. But I really hate having to open a third client just to play the game normally. It's already dumb enough that metin2 is the only game on earth that you need 2 clients to play the game, imagine 3.
So, new suggestion, even easier than my first one: can't we just make it so that you can use the Farm Mode with 2 clients only, and be able to disable the drop from one of the two characters? (so you can have them both enabled, or just one enabled and the other one disabled)
Anyway, I apreciate the answer! Hope that my point make sense to the team

 

[r1r2r3]

Actually we do not know the final drop rate calculations and how to know them when support team has no insight in such files, anyhow it shouldnt be a public info either in my opinion.

Is this answer a joke? Do you think it makes the team look any better after for almost two entire years you yourselves told us that "being in a party with your buff doesn't affect your drop"?

This really doesn't help your case and I'm honestly left speechless. You propagate something as certain truth for so long, then someone official says a different thing and now you hide behind such a pathetic excuse. It's just a joke, I can't see it any other way. A joke.

Shouldn't it be public information whether being in a party or not influences your drop, as in the most asked question on metin servers in the history of metin servers that everyone asks? Jesus Christ.

 

[Asteria]

Is this answer a joke? Do you think it makes the team look any better after for almost two entire years you yourselves told us that "being in a party with your buff doesn't affect your drop"?

This really doesn't help your case and I'm honestly left speechless. You propagate something as certain truth for so long, then someone official says a different thing and now you hide behind such a pathetic excuse. It's just a joke, I can't see it any other way. A joke.

Shouldn't it be public information whether being in a party or not influences your drop, as in the most asked question on metin servers in the history of metin servers that everyone asks? Jesus Christ.

Hello,

Since we as support team, as i mentioned earlier, know as much as its told to us and as its told to us (and we do trust our team mates) we can forward only that information to you as it is. I dont understand what else or more do you expect us to say?

Regards

 

[owlyyy]

Hey everyone,

Following up on the discussion about drop rates in parties, especially with buffers, I wanted to revisit the theory I presented earlier and address some of the points raised. I also want to acknowledge Reyhue's initial suggestion of a "damage-based" loot distribution option, which is definitely a relevant point to consider.

First, I want to acknowledge the initial confusion and conflicting information. It seems even the support team was working with incomplete knowledge about how the drop rate is precisely calculated when in a party. As Asteria mentioned, the support team can only relay the information they're given. This highlights a need for greater transparency regarding core game mechanics, especially something as crucial as drop rates.

My original post outlined several possibilities for how the final drop rate might be calculated, and based on the discussion, scenario 2.3 seems increasingly likely:
2.3) as solo player - in a team - the fighter that deals dmg - ...if drop rate is calculated as within the team, considering the bonus rates of each member - let's count drop chance like that : int = integer of additional drop chance int p1 = your final drop rate as per 1) int p2 = his final drop rate OR just bare 0.0 [ 2 possible options ] int p3 = his final drop rate OR just bare 0.0 [ 2 possible options ] int p4 = his final drop rate OR just bare 0.0 [ 2 possible options ] value players = 1; value droprate = p1; if ( p2 online and in range ) then { p1 = p1 + p2 , players = players +1 ) if ( p3 online and in range ) then { p1 = p1 + p3 , players = players +1 ) if ( p4 online and in range ) then { p1 = p1 + p4 , players = players +1 ) assuming example situation: 3 people from party online , 4th offline, p1 is you with total 150% bonus drop chance , p2 is your buff without additional drop chance, p3 is some guy that asked you to level him up, he has 7day bonus from glove and votebuff bonus which sets him in 60% bonus drop chance value. p4 is offline so he does not count nor matter for the calculation. so that would result in theory in: p1=1.5 p2=0 p3=0.6 p4=0 players=3 calculated drop value affected by nearby teammates: (p1+p2+p3+p4) / players = 2.1 / 3 = 0.7

That would result in the drop rate bonus chance distribution would be even in value of 70% for every affected player, meaning a player that is within the range & online.​

In essence, this means that drop rates of party members within range are likely averaged. This aligns with the experiences shared in this thread, where players noticed a decrease in drops when farming with a buffer in the party.

As I mentioned, I used to dig deep in Metin2 server/client side in past. This game-logic-approach (averaging drop rates within a party) seems like a plausible way to calculate the drop rate in a group setting. While the exact formula remains unknown, the logic and the anecdotal evidence strongly suggest that this is how the system operates.

Moving Forward:​

While using a third client with farm mode, as suggested by Reyhue, might be a temporary workaround, it's not an ideal solution. It adds unnecessary complexity to the gameplay experience.

Reyhue also initially proposed an interesting alternative: a "damage" option for loot distribution. This would ensure that only the characters dealing damage would have their drop rates considered in the calculation, effectively solving the issue of buffers lowering the overall drop rate. This is definitely worth considering as a potential improvement to the current system. Another option would be to allow players to disable drop on a specific character while in a party, similar to how the "Farm Mode" currently works but applicable within a two-client setup or not to include characters with 0 added drop rate in equation.

I hope this follow-up provides further clarity on the issue. Thanks to everyone who contributed to the discussion, especially Reyhue for their initial suggestion.

I'm surprised to see this still is a debated thing since all the years we've been having in hate/love relationship with this game, I'd more more than willing to dig into it if any of the dev team members could see my help / insight as useful.

Happy new year!,

owlyyy