Changes for 75 lvl dungeons (Azrael & Aqua drake)

[Adveres]

Subject: Request to Review the Current State of the 75–95 Level Range


Dear Administration,


I would like to kindly address the current state of the level range 75–95 and request that it be reviewed, particularly in regard to dungeon content and drop balance.


Here’s a quick overview of how the level progression currently looks on the server:

• Level 35 – Monkey Dungeon, Orc Map, Desert Map
• Level 42 – Orc Map, Desert, Sohan, Temple, Naaga Dungeon, SD1 (Spiders farm)
• Level 55/60 – Sohan, Fireland, Temple, Naaga + Spider Baroness, SD2 farm map
• Level 96–105 – Earth Dragon, Nemere, Razador, Azrael, and the 4 Beta Maps

Now we get to level 75 and the surrounding range, and this is where several problems begin to appear:

• Fireland – has no drop at all
• Regular Forest – drop quality is significantly worse than what a level 60 farmer gets
• Spider Baroness – generates 3–4 times less profit than at lower levels due to reduced yang, fewer entry passes, and worse side drop

The only meaningful content in this range includes DT (which, in practice, can already be done at 60 with a level 75 buffer), Azrael, Dragon, Red Forest, and Helia.


While Red Forest and Helia are in a good place, especially after being reintroduced recently, the real issue lies with Azrael and the Dragon, specifically regarding chest drops.


Currently, level 105 characters can access both of these dungeons and receive the same drop as a 75-level character. This is despite clear differences in strength, gear, and completion speed. For example:

• The Dragon at 75 requires a duo, which heavily cuts into profit
• Azrael takes roughly twice as long due to the gate floor
• Drop remains the same regardless of level

In earlier dungeons (e.g. Naaga at 42 vs. 60, or Baroness at 55 vs. 75–90), the drop scales noticeably, rewarding lower-level players. Unfortunately, this logic doesn’t carry over to Azrael and the Dragon, making them highly unprofitable for level 75–95 players.


In effect, this leaves only DT, Red Forest, and Helia as worthwhile content for that level range — which feels unbalanced and limiting.

---

My suggestion:
To address this imbalance, I propose one of the following solutions:

1. Reduce the maximum level for Azrael and Dragon to level 90, so that level 96+ characters no longer have access to these dungeons. This would positively impact the market and restore value to playing within the 75–90 range instead of pushing everyone toward endgame only.
2. Alternatively, adjust the chest drop system to scale better for lower-level characters, giving them more valuable rewards relative to their capabilities (similar to how it works with Naaga and Spider Baroness). This way, players without access to high-end gear or high damage output still feel appropriately rewarded for their efforts.

---

Thank you for your attention and all the work you do on the server.


Kind regards,Adveres

 

[ninja]

Please use proper English grammar — it's quite hard to understand your point of view.
And please re-read the topic we're discussing before posting again, as you still haven’t addressed our main point: that dungeons are not worth doing, which doesn't make any logic sense.

Chat gpt left the chat. Guys I am a 35 lvl farmer but it's kinda bad money here let me do nemere there no dungeons for me to do except the monkey dungeon where I usually meet adveres and skullek. Please it can't be limited for 105 players only.

 

[Adveres]

Again you are comparing Naaga and Baroness to end game dungeons which doesn't make any sense at all. Naaga is entry level dungeon and doesnt require any specific items to beat it, and besides pet stuff is useless going forward. Anyone can make a pet at any level and the point of the dungeon being on that level range is to make your pet before you advance further and never touch it again. And again comparing Baroness to Azrael, you are comparing a 700kk belt from Baroness with a 10kkk item from Azrael. Any 96 player and above is using Souls Belts they aint using Baroness belts besides maybe Linen Belt on some occasions. Now a 90+ player can use all items from Azrael Earings,Bracelet,Necklece, 105 Players use these as well and if they want they evolve them to Nemere items. So tell me now whats your point in Making Azrael 75-90 dungeon? You want to control the market in that level range with the minimum requierments and minimum investment for items needed in end-game, make it make sense please.

I hope you'll understand after I repeat it over and over. Kindly, please — I just want to know: in your opinion, is it okay that Baroness is more profitable than Azrael and Dragon?


Baroness: 20 minutes of actual playtime per hour. Entrance costs 16kk, so that's 80kk for 20 minutes of effort (since you can do it three times per hour due to cooldowns — total 60 minutes of in-game time).


Azrael: Takes about 40 minutes to complete. Entrance costs 16kk, and the chest value is around 80kk + few kk from the crystals. As well. It has a 1-hour cooldown after finishing, so that's 40 minutes of gameplay, but 1 hour 40 minutes of in-game time due to the wait.


Dragon : Takes around 10 minutes to complete. Entrance costs between 8–12kk, with a drop value of around 80kk. However, it has a 4-hour cooldown.


I just want to understand if this makes sense. You still didn't answer my question @ninja, all u do is talking nonsense **** instead taking a part in normal discussion.

 

[ninja]

I hope you'll understand after I repeat it over and over. Kindly, please — I just want to know: in your opinion, is it okay that Baroness is more profitable than Azrael and Dragon?


Baroness: 20 minutes of actual playtime per hour. Entrance costs 16kk, so that's 80kk for 20 minutes of effort (since you can do it three times per hour due to cooldowns — total 60 minutes of in-game time).


Azrael: Takes about 40 minutes to complete. Entrance costs 16kk, and the chest value is around 80kk + few kk from the crystals. As well. It has a 1-hour cooldown after finishing, so that's 40 minutes of gameplay, but 1 hour 40 minutes of in-game time due to the wait.


Dragon : Takes around 10 minutes to complete. Entrance costs between 8–12kk, with a drop value of around 80kk. However, it has a 4-hour cooldown.


I just want to understand if this makes sense. You still didn't answer my question @ninja, all u do is talking nonsense **** instead taking a part in normal discussion.

Hey guys, lemme give you my take on this. Don't call me a genius, okay?

Spider Baroness three times for over 20 minutes each, plus cooldown, that's over an hour at your computer for 80kk.

Azrael run (30 minutes max, no way anyone's doing it longer) = 80kk for 30 minutes!
Or, Azrael 30 plus 30 minutes farming stones = 120kk/hour+

It's kinda complicated, like quantum physics, but hang in there, you'll figure it out.

 

[Adveres]

Hey guys, lemme give you my take on this. Don't call me a genius, okay?

Spider Baroness three times for over 20 minutes each, plus cooldown, that's over an hour at your computer for 80kk.

Azrael run (30 minutes max, no way anyone's doing it longer) = 80kk for 30 minutes!
Or, Azrael 30 plus 30 minutes farming stones = 120kk/hour+

It's kinda complicated, like quantum physics, but hang in there, you'll figure it out.

You were given precise calculations with specific timelines, but you twisted them to fit your own narrative and now you're calling yourself Einstein — impressive.

u counter baroness 3 times for 20minutes, i counted 2 times for 10minutes, u can;t be that stupid can you?

 

[Deleted member 2771]

I hope you'll understand after I repeat it over and over. Kindly, please — I just want to know: in your opinion, is it okay that Baroness is more profitable than Azrael and Dragon?


Baroness: 20 minutes of actual playtime per hour. Entrance costs 16kk, so that's 80kk for 20 minutes of effort (since you can do it three times per hour due to cooldowns — total 60 minutes of in-game time).


Azrael: Takes about 40 minutes to complete. Entrance costs 16kk, and the chest value is around 80kk + few kk from the crystals. As well. It has a 1-hour cooldown after finishing, so that's 40 minutes of gameplay, but 1 hour 40 minutes of in-game time due to the wait.


Dragon : Takes around 10 minutes to complete. Entrance costs between 8–12kk, with a drop value of around 80kk. However, it has a 4-hour cooldown.


I just want to understand if this makes sense. You still didn't answer my question @ninja, all u do is talking nonsense **** instead taking a part in normal discussion.

Mate your original point in this topic was how Azrael should give better drop to low levels and to restrict it with Drake till lvl90, don't calculate drops now. Makes no sense at all if its any consolation these dungeons should be made 90-105 not 75-90. Restricting these dungeons till lvl90 is by far the funniest thing i've read on this forum no offense, first of all there are 3 good dungeons that can be done by 96 Farmers. Thats Azrael, Aqua Drake and Earth Drake. Now to do Earth Drake properly and fast you need 4 characters(think about how much investing that is). As for 105 Players, you get Azrael, Aqua, Earth, Razador, Nemere. Now don't even get me started on Razador and Nemere, people are making seperate characters to be able to run Nemere properly and not waste too much time and yang into pushes, and Razador from what i've seen is run by multiple characters to be also done efficiently. So what dungeons are they supposed to do since lvl75 players feel so left out that they need 2 people to run Aqua? Now from all of this and preivous replies, please explain to me why do you think these dungeons should be restricted and why do you think a lower level should drop more?

 

[Adveres]

Mate your original point in this topic was how Azrael should give better drop to low levels and to restrict it with Drake till lvl90, don't calculate drops now. Makes no sense at all if its any consolation these dungeons should be made 90-105 not 75-90. Restricting these dungeons till lvl90 is by far the funniest thing i've read on this forum no offense, first of all there are 3 good dungeons that can be done by 96 Farmers. Thats Azrael, Aqua Drake and Earth Drake. Now to do Earth Drake properly and fast you need 4 characters(think about how much investing that is). As for 105 Players, you get Azrael, Aqua, Earth, Razador, Nemere. Now don't even get me started on Razador and Nemere, people are making seperate characters to be able to run Nemere properly and not waste too much time and yang into pushes, and Razador from what i've seen is run by multiple characters to be also done efficiently. So what dungeons are they supposed to do since lvl75 players feel so left out that they need 2 people to run Aqua? Now from all of this and preivous replies, please explain to me why do you think these dungeons should be restricted and why do you think a lower level should drop more?

if you have any better ideas to fix the actual game state, im here to hear you! you are right about that, but u still didn't answer to my question from last comment

 

[Deleted member 2771]

if you have any better ideas to fix the actual game state, im here to hear you! you are right about that, but u still didn't answer to my question from last comment

Azrael is 1 hour cooldown and takes me about 20 minutes to run and as you mentioned 5 Coffers(let's say average 15kk per) thats 75kk and if you drop max ores thats 105kk, side drop from Charon, Bonus Changers, Time Elixir thats almost 130-140kk for one good run.

Aqua is 4 Hour cooldown, drops 5 Coffers only and takes 3 minutes to finish. (Sometimes you can get lucky to drop extra from the mobs inside but we won't count it)


Now let me try to explain why these dungeons are made like this because when i first started to do them i too was confused why it takes so long and why its not the best drop ever. The game is made to be Hard PVM, and these dungeons are more like side missions and not a main quest you should focus specifically on.

Aqua has a 4 hour cooldown because it takes 5minutes to kill and to limit the amount of upgrade materials on the Market. I assume the dungeon is open 75-105 to compensate for the remaining amount to some degree, because if the dungeon was limited to a certain amount of players as you suggested 75-90, Material prices will sky rocket and items along with them. Because if you look at the leaderboard for Aqua you will see there that 99% of the Players are 90+.

As for Azrael, 1 hour Cooldown only because the dungeon has 7 Floors with the 1st floor being a pain in the a*s.

But the main point is, both of these dungeons contain key parts(Materials) needed to advance. Therefore thats why they are made like this. To have a slow and steady progress in the game and not to rush it. Hard PVM style. Same thing would happen if Azrael was restricted as per your suggestion 75-90, so few players will be doing them with longer run times resulting in a shortage of Materials in the market and resulting in a ridiculous increase in prices for Azrael items( as if they are not already ridiculous).
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And i don't actually think there needs to be a fix for this since they want to keep the Hard PVM style. My suggestion for you would be to farm normally and do Dungeons on the side and not make them your main source of income.

 

[Basim]

Reduce the maximum level for Azrael and Dragon to level 90,

????????????? do you understand the wild concept that you need scales and claws to make epic weapons and to make epic shoes and to upgrade them and to make aqua armors which is stuff people use at higher level than 75-90? That's just from aqua, lemme give you an overview about azrael too since you desperately need it. From azrael you make the earrings necklace and bracelet, which the last two evolve at 105 to nemere accessories which are the end-game pvp gear, you think only at level 75-90 you need those? XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Yea 75-90 is a pretty bad place to stay but guess what once you hit level 75 your only goal should be to hit level 90 or 96 and farm in beta.
What the... is this abomination of a suggestion

 

[ninja]

????????????? do you understand the wild concept that you need scales and claws to make epic weapons and to make epic shoes and to upgrade them and to make aqua armors which is stuff people use at higher level than 75-90? That's just from aqua, lemme give you an overview about azrael too since you desperately need it. From azrael you make the earrings necklace and bracelet, which the last two evolve at 105 to nemere accessories which are the end-game pvp gear, you think only at level 75-90 you need those? XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Yea 75-90 is a pretty bad place to stay but guess what once you hit level 75 your only goal should be to hit level 90 or 96 and farm in beta.
What the... is this abomination of a suggestion

Well, that's it. So simple but too hard for them to understand. But if see closely the only upvotes and likes comes from his guild members. There is no point to waste a time on them.

 

[Adveres]

????????????? do you understand the wild concept that you need scales and claws to make epic weapons and to make epic shoes and to upgrade them and to make aqua armors which is stuff people use at higher level than 75-90? That's just from aqua, lemme give you an overview about azrael too since you desperately need it. From azrael you make the earrings necklace and bracelet, which the last two evolve at 105 to nemere accessories which are the end-game pvp gear, you think only at level 75-90 you need those? XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Yea 75-90 is a pretty bad place to stay but guess what once you hit level 75 your only goal should be to hit level 90 or 96 and farm in beta.
What the... is this abomination of a suggestion

You're still only responding to one of the several points raised—only Corvvo is actually trying to argue his case. Look, I get it: epic scales, epic claws, and Azrael items are needed to craft epic gear, and I respect that. But isn’t 19kk a bit joke for a claw for EPIC equipment?


Haunted Silver Ore from Azrael is worth 2.5kk right now. Sure, Azrael gear is necessary to improve your character but that gear is meant for levels 58–62, and most players are done with it before even hitting the level 90 wall.

If you're still desperate to farm low-level dungeons at level 105 and you're not even considering the current market and state of the server, it's honestly really hard to have a serious discussion about this.
@ninja your time is worthless anyway, as we've all clearly seen.


You're still missing the point: both of these dungeons are simply not as rewarding as they should be. One of the reasons I even suggested a level limitation in the first place is because when level 105 players have access to the exact same drops due to chest drop as players between 75–90, it completely ruins the market—prices become miserable, because they do not push such an effort into dungeons


Take me for example: at this point, it’s actually more profitable to sell Baroness drops and buy Azrael/Drake upgrade items and chests than to run Azrael myself. And that’s after running both dungeons hundreds of times. I still can’t wrap my head around how that’s even remotely balanced.

 

[Basim]

You're still only responding to one of the several points raised—only Corvvo is actually trying to argue his case. Look, I get it: epic scales, epic claws, and Azrael items are needed to craft epic gear, and I respect that. But isn’t 19kk a bit joke for a claw for EPIC equipment?


Haunted Silver Ore from Azrael is worth 2.5kk right now. Sure, Azrael gear is necessary to improve your character but that gear is meant for levels 58–62, and most players are done with it before even hitting the level 90 wall.

If you're still desperate to farm low-level dungeons at level 105 and you're not even considering the current market and state of the server, it's honestly really hard to have a serious discussion about this.
@ninja your time is worthless anyway, as we've all clearly seen.


You're still missing the point: both of these dungeons are simply not as rewarding as they should be. One of the reasons I even suggested a level limitation in the first place is because when level 105 players have access to the exact same drops due to chest drop as players between 75–90, it completely ruins the market—prices become miserable, because they do not push such an effort into dungeons


Take me for example: at this point, it’s actually more profitable to sell Baroness drops and buy Azrael/Drake upgrade items and chests than to run Azrael myself. And that’s after running both dungeons hundreds of times. I still can’t wrap my head around how that’s even remotely balanced.

The claws are worthless because they drop more than scales, also, most people fail their shoes/weapons at +7 where you need 2 scales. Some time ago it was the other way around, scales were worthless and claws were 100kk+
Spirited silver ore is almost a guaranteed drop so that's why it's cheap.
What you propose is a dumb idea because 105ers can make a stupid lvl 90 char in 5-6 hours(if they don't already have one which most do to farm bosses in beta now fyi) and still farm the dungeons so the prices will not rise XD you forget the average wom player has at least 1 account partner.
You need to farm these runs so many times you can't stand them anymore to get an item +9.Buying the drops isn't a solution on the long run unless you make big money some other way. Your idea would force people to stay at level 90 forever or make multiple farmers. It's not a real solution and the downvotes prove my point xD

 

[Adveres]

The claws are worthless because they drop more than scales, also, most people fail their shoes/weapons at +7 where you need 2 scales. Some time ago it was the other way around, scales were worthless and claws were 100kk+
Spirited silver ore is almost a guaranteed drop so that's why it's cheap.
What you propose is a dumb idea because 105ers can make a stupid lvl 90 char in 5-6 hours(if they don't already have one which most do to farm bosses in beta now fyi) and still farm the dungeons so the prices will not rise XD you forget the average wom player has at least 1 account partner.
You need to farm these runs so many times you can't stand them anymore to get an item +9.Buying the drops isn't a solution on the long run unless you make big money some other way. Your idea would force people to stay at level 90 forever or make multiple farmers. It's not a real solution and the downvotes prove my point xD

I see you have a point, but, at this point, the most efficient way is to stop at level 60 and jump straight to 96 — that's how bad things are now. Maybe I have memory issues, but I feel like the dragon and Azrael were already on the server before the patch with the level 105 cap and Solar equipment. How on earth did people even manage to play back then? Thats interesting don't you think? They did the dungeon like they were supposed too, but market was fine and it was actually worth it

 

[IDemonI]

Guys whats even happening at this point lmao

 

[Asteria]

Guys whats even happening at this point lmao

Considering there is a lot of downvotes i assume this suggestion is not really desired among players. However a heathy debate i always welcomed, its good to express your opinion in a polite manner.

Regards